Kayla Jagusch and the year of strangers who believed in her
Milan, transitional spaces and big life changes
Kayla Jagusch recently completed her Master’s Degree in Visual Brand Design at the Domus Academy in Milan. She is back in her native Brooklyn for the next month preparing to move to Milan full-time.
Kayla and I met at David Yurman, where we both worked pre-pandemic, and we immediately hit it off - she is an avid traveler, a lover of good pastries, and an insanely hard worker. She brightened the hell out of my office days and I’m so glad to call her a friend. Here we chatted about liminal spaces, big pandemic moves, new friends, and more.
Christine: How did you feel leaving New York? What was the vibe?
Kayla: There were such mixed emotions. You know how it is: you’re super overwhelmed with getting all your ducks in a row. So I didn’t want to be happy until I landed. I couldn’t let the floodgates down until I knew it was actually a thing. I felt so excited, but also sad. I cried and called my best friend and was like, I don’t know what I’m doing! Why am I doing this? Is this the right decision? I think I fucked up, everything’s here: my family is here, my friends are here. I think I wanted to be happy and excited, but once I landed, I allowed myself to be.
Christine: Absolutely. Currently I’m in a very bittersweet phase, where I’m like: but, New York, though! I love New York so much. And I know you do, too.
Kayla: I love New York, but I knew that what I wanted wasn’t here any more. And I knew that what I wanted was maybe not going to be Milan - but I knew it was outside of this country, and I knew I needed to take a risk. And with that risk came a factor of fear.
Christine: Do you think the pandemic spurred you to have that realization?
Kayla: Oh yeah. I don’t think I would have ever made the decision to go to grad school, or to think about moving my life outside of the country. It was perfect timing, I had no lease, no significant other.
And also, as you know, having time off from the corporate life - I always explain to my friends in Italy that when the pandemic hit it was like the hamster wheel stopped turning, and it was the first time where I had this moment of peace. Where I could be with my thoughts, gather what I had done, and then try to understand where I wanted to go next.
Christine: I totally agree. I was so sad at the time getting laid off. And I know you didn’t get laid off, you decided to leave, but like: when I think of what my life is now, even though it was so scary to start freelancing? It’s truly wild to compare it.
Kayla: I know. I was walking down the street in Flatiron a few days ago with my headphones in, and I noticed this guy - he had normal clothes on and a business bag, and he’s like - your energy, your energy! So I said, what? And he said, I can read your energy! It’s radiating! He said that the past five years in my life I’ve had a lot of ups and downs. And it’s true! I’ve had so many highs and lows in New York. And he said that right now, in my current state of being, I’m happy and I have good energy exuding from me, and that more good things are coming.
I think that the pandemic was the end of that five year bad luck of ups and downs. But it was scary to say goodbye to a paycheck, to a 401k, to all of that.
Christine: I can’t even imagine. It’s so awesome that you did that - I think I was too entrenched at that point to be able to make the same call you did. So in hindsight I’m like, thank god they fired me.
Okay, so once you actually got to Milan, at what point did you start to feel at home, or like you were transitioning successfully?
Kayla: You know, I always find that I’m at home when I can go to a place that I frequent and they start to know me, or if I go somewhere in the city and run into people that I know. I’d know the owner of the bakery, something like that. And then, once a set group of my friends started going out every Monday, I think after a few Monday nights I was like, this feels like home. This feels like my city. I had a routine, you know? I don’t know if that sounds silly.
Christine: No, that sounds so nice! It’s like a goddamn sitcom. I’m pissed. I wish I had a group of friends like that in Brooklyn right now.
Kayla: Right? I wish I had that too! People make a city feel like home. I had my routine, I had my people, and I don’t know - there are some days in Milan where I’ve found myself walking down the street, getting teary-eyed, and being like: this place just feels right.
For me, New York was inevitable because of my family - my dad’s a New Yorker, I worked in fashion. It was never my dream city to live in. And Milan, for me, it felt for the first time like I was supposed to be there.
Christine: I think that has been one thing that’s been making me feel better about moving - the fact that everyone else also moved away during the pandemic. Because even though I still love New York so much, as an entity, it’s way easier to imagine leaving now that a lot of my friends left.
So, as far as what you loved about Milan - any favorite rituals?
Kayla: Lunch from 1-2pm - everyone takes it then, everything is closed then, so that became a ritual. Honestly, I loved - I would wake up, I would walk to the bar and have coffee, and then I would just walk. It was a ritual for me every day to walk in the morning and evening. In the evening, of course I’d pick up a gelato. I think, honestly, all I really did was eat, walk, and shop, so the rituals pretty much stopped there.
Oh! And there’s a really big market on Tuesdays, so those days I would go to the market. It’s an open-air market with clothing, fruit stands, the cheese guy, the olive guy.
Christine: What was a cultural difference that surprised you? And was there anything about America that you really missed?
Kayla: I don’t know if there were many things that I missed about America. The biggest cultural difference for me is the hierarchy and, I guess, the patriarchy - the misogyny of Italian culture. It’s hard. In the workplace, you have to start off as an intern - and then, from an internship, you have to work on a contract, and then you’re a freelancer, and then, maybe they’ll hire you. And all of these businesses are run by old white men.
Christine: I don’t think it’s to the same extent in Ireland as in Italy, but I do notice some aspects of that too. More so just how people grow up in Ireland. Everyone goes to gender-segregated schools, and it feels like Irish dudes want to keep to their own gender. Which is weird for me, because some of my closest friends are men. I feel this palpable sense of like, gender distinction in Ireland. And it’s not to say they’re super sexist, but I think they have such different norms around that stuff.
Kayla: In Italy it’s more like, the woman stays in the kitchen, the woman has the children and raises them, the men make the money, the men make the decisions, and that’s kind of it.
Christine: Yeah, I feel like there’s more of a sense of machismo in Italy that you don’t get in Ireland.
Kayla: Keep it that way.
Christine: How are you feeling about this in-between time, emotionally? Are you trying to make the most of it? Does it feel good to be back?
Kayla: I was really hesitant to come back, because I was worried I would be stuck here and just get complacent. You know, life is easy in New York, my family’s here. So that’s hard, and other people are confused about my plans. It’s a weird time, and I’m trying to stay optimistic during this transition. I also want to enjoy the moment of being here, with my family, in my home. It’s hard, because people are like what are you doing next? It’s really hard to swallow not knowing. It’s a very weird time.
Christine: I understand that. Even just moving Rigby to Ireland - I’m like, why is this so emotional? We won’t go on our little walks in Prospect Park any more! We won’t be here together!
What advice do you have for someone (me) moving to a different country?
Kayla: I think my number one advice would be, do your research and understand what you’re getting into, and what you need to do to successfully restructure and rebuild your life. But also, take the risk and do it. Because you won’t be happy in life if you don’t do the things that make you scared.
Christine: Agree with that.
Kayla: Carpe that diem! Every day in 6th grade, my teacher would write “carpe diem” on the board. And every morning we would be like, okay, we get it, Ms. Cervo! But then I woke up every day in Italy and I was like, carpe that diem, baby. Now’s the time to live.
And here’s my final comment, if I’m allowed: I’ve never had more people reach out to me and be so open and kind. Since I was in Italy, I’ve met so many people through Instagram. They would say, I really like your page, want to grab a coffee? And I took people up on that, and I think it might be weird, it might be scary, but - I just met such great people that way. So I would say, don’t limit yourself on how to meet people. Be open.
Christine: Yes! Do you think there’s something to the fact that you were already putting yourself out there, so the universe was like, here are some extra bang for your buck friends out of this?
Kayla: I believe it. You don’t know what opportunities things will bring. I’ve never had so many people be so generous who didn’t even know me. 2021 was the year of the strangers who believed in me.
I plan on doing more expat interviews - watch this space! And meanwhile, if you know of anyone interesting that fits the bill (especially women), please connect us so that I can talk to ‘em.